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[WA] Union unhappy with new police patrol cars

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[WA] Union unhappy with new police patrol cars

Postby Richmeister » Mon May 16, 2005 9:44 pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 ... 367851.htm

The Western Australian Police Union says it is less than impressed with the new high performance patrol cars which are about to be sent to country WA.
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Postby rgg066 » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:17 am

They objected to the New Silver Commodores with the Vic Smart
Car Markings!

Heaven knows what they expected the Department to provide
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Postby dazla » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:36 am

What do they mean by High Power, they are only standard V6 commodores as far as I know.

They do look good though, they have a recently formed Traffic Enforcement Group which use silver commodores with the SMART markings on them. They stand out from miles away.
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Postby rgg066 » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:15 pm

dazla wrote:What do they mean by High Power, they are only standard V6 commodores as far as I know.


That's right dazla.

The cars concerned are a normal V6 Police Pack Sedan with a bootlid spoiler and Vic "SMART" car markings.

They aren't even an SV6.

But the issue the Union has raised is aparrently in relation to the Safety of them.

The obvious question is why single out the Hwy Patrol cars as being unsafe? They are a silver Police pack with a spoiler. There are identical vehicles in the fleet used as unmarked cars by C.I. detectives. There has been no suggestion of a safety issue with the unmarked or General Duties sedans.

I just don't get it.
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Postby HDTSLE » Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:57 pm

The Silver Traffic Enforcement Group vehicles are a mix of vehicles.

The ones you see in the city are the standard Exec V6 Commodores, the country HWP cars are SV6's, which only priority one drivers are allowed to drive.

Hope this clears things up!

But when will they build a purpose built police vehicle for all states and territories??? Our lives often depend on the safety of these cars, they should cover everything we need for work and for safety!
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Postby rgg066 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:42 pm

So what's ALLEGEDLY wrong with them?

You don't realise how lucky you are. Ask anyone in this group who has the misfortune to have to drive a BA at work and what an uninspiring brick on wheels they are. I absolutely HATE them.

The Commodore is a far better car than a BA could dream to be!!

Apart from the fact you guys are stuck with a heirachy that doesn't trust you to use anything better for "Highway Patrol" work, than what in other states passes for a normal Uniform Station Sedan, I don't understand the issue at all.

Assuming you are a Union member, and that the union acts on behalf of members, maybe you can enlighten me on what serious "safety issue" we have failed to notice in all the other states.

As for the manufacturers producing a specific Police Vehice, Holden and Ford (in a very agricultural way) make a Police Pack version of the Commodore and Falcon already.

Economies of scale in Australia dictate, that cost of development, engineering and ADR compliance of a different tool build vehicle, specifically for Police work, is commecially unvialble and merely a pipedream. Anoyne who seriously believes that such a vehicle will be produced in Australia is dillusional!!

The US has several specially produced Police Cars ex factory. All the General Duties versions are tanks. The most common of these is the Ford Crown Victoria.

If you don't know the Crown Victoria Police Car, think Ford Fairlane only bigger, with a BA XT interior and column Auto! They are no safer than the Commodore WA is complaining about. Remember the Crown is for a market where they produce twice the number of Crown Victoria Police cars a year than we make Commodores in Exec, Berlina, Calias, S'pack and SS combined!

If you want to drive an aircraft carrier on wheels, then such a vehicle is for you!!

Sure a Statesman is great to drive on a trip from Melbourne to Brizzy, but I'll be buggered if I want one in Police Spec as a Police Car!

There have been SS Commodores taken to the US and we've had various US Police members visit out shores. Every US member I've come accross and heard the comments of, has been VERY impressed with the SS Commodres as a HWY car and the Commodore / Falcon sized sedans as General Duties Vehicles in comparison to the pathetic handling, hulking mamoths they drive back at home.

Bearing in mind the size of the Australian Police Hwy Patrol vehicle fleet, then considering the insignificant percentage WA which represents of that number, my question is, What the hell does the WA Police Union expect??

I'd have thought that, in the interests of maintaining their credibility and a public perception of relevance, there would surely be far more important and significant issues to dig their heels in over than Commodore Police Pack cars!

Without a cost effective viable alternative, their stance is already making them the butt of all jokes!
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Postby Ryno » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:54 pm

Are the SV6's 6 speed manuals?
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Postby rgg066 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:59 pm

I'd suggest not, as Holden is yet to release the 6sp Man in the SV6.
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Postby Richmeister » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:05 am

Hmm, WAPol don't trust their drivers to change gears properly in a Falcon auto, I don't see them jumping for Holden manuals any time soon...
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Postby Ryno » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:21 am

rgg066 wrote:I'd suggest not, as Holden is yet to release the 6sp Man in the SV6.


Apparently it's standard here; Holden Website
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Postby rgg066 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:39 am

Ryno wrote:
rgg066 wrote:I'd suggest not, as Holden is yet to release the 6sp Man in the SV6.


Apparently it's standard here; Holden Website



It might be "standard," but it's not "actually available" yet.

Just because the website says it is so, doesn't make it true!!
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Postby Ryno » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:11 am

That doesn't make sense, why would they advertise it as so if it isn't available?
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Postby rgg066 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:04 am

Ryno wrote:That doesn't make sense, why would they advertise it as so if it isn't available?


That's an excellent question that I've asked Holden Customer Service. The guy in the call centre barely knew what an SV6 was. (He knew it was a Commodore, but thought it was a V8!) Cust Svc couldn't answer the question, so I've got no hope of answering it for you.

It is alleged, the SV6 6sp Man will be available before they release the Series 2, but right now it isn't.

I've been waiting since the SV6 was released for one of three dealers to call me when they get their first SV6 6sp Manual, so I can test drive it, before I consider buying one. I've been waiting since last September!
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Postby Ryno » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:58 pm

Ah fair enough then.

Not surprised the customer service bloke doesn't know whats going on - I mean, why tell him? :roll:

I suppose my chances of driving any powerful car let alone a manual is very slim here. :cry:

:wink:
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Postby Richmeister » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:42 pm

So the highest trained police drivers are stuck with 190 kW auto SV6s, but Joe Civilian with no driver training can go out and jump in a 305 kW six speed manual ClubSport?
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Postby rgg066 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:46 pm

Richmeister wrote:So the highest trained police drivers are stuck with 190 kW auto SV6s, but Joe Civilian with no driver training can go out and jump in a 305 kW six speed manual ClubSport?



Richy, you are clearly attempting to introduce logic into the discussion.

It's not too often management and logic are used in the same pargraph, especially not when management is more interested in public perception and spin doctor manupulated headlines in the press.
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Postby Richmeister » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:47 pm

Sorry. My bad :oops:
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Postby rgg066 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:52 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Walks » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:04 pm

Rgg066
That's right dazla.

The cars concerned are a normal V6 Police Pack Sedan with a bootlid spoiler and Vic "SMART" car markings.

They aren't even an SV6.

But the issue the Union has raised is aparrently in relation to the Safety of them.

The obvious question is why single out the Hwy Patrol cars as being unsafe?


TEG was started before we were 'allowed' to have SV6 motors. Therefore the bright sparks that be decided that we could make silver commodores 'look like' Sv6's.

SV6's will replace the dodgy lookalikes when they are replaced. Look sh|t anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SV6's will be allowed to be driven by ANY Police Officer, not just pursuit trained ones....WHY? Because there aren't enough trained people in the bush to drive them i.e one was sent to lets say a smallish country town north of Perth, 6 staff, under the old conditions only 2 blokes would be allowed to drive it......impossible to maintain and an OIC's nightmare.

But the traffic blokes wont have it all there own way for long as my section has just been authorised for SV6 use. Black one on the way!!!! :twisted:

The union want us to drive around in barracaded vehicles providing safety. As I think has been mentioned.... no one will provide this as cost is too high and sh|t like that will affect the handling of the vehicle way too much....have more prangs trying to corner and stop in time.

Anyway enough blabber and sorry for activating an oldish thread :wink:

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Postby rgg066 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:20 pm

Walks wrote:

The union want us to drive around in barracaded vehicles providing safety. Walks



So what's wrong with the sedan barriers being used in Qld, NT, Victoria and SA?

They enable any sedan to be used to transport prisoners with the safety of the member(s) on the car in mind. There are several designs of modern barrier available which are made of a virtually indestructable nylon polymer, that is lightweight and wouldn't affect vehicle performance or braking in any way. If anything, they contribute to increased structural rigidity as they are bolted to the vehicle at the seatbelt anchoring point on the B Pillar.

Is the point the Union is attempting to make that the Dept won't purchase barriers?

If not, I don't understand their position.
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Postby Walks » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:06 pm

Yes we have the 'pods' as they are called for the sedans. Having used one, they are great.

Our union want us to have vehicles fitted with basically a full roll bar kit and side intrusion bars to protect us in prangs and the like.

Be like racing at the speedway

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Postby rgg066 » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:35 am

Walks wrote:Yes we have the 'pods' as they are called for the sedans. Having used one, they are great.

Our union want us to have vehicles fitted with basically a full roll bar kit and side intrusion bars to protect us in prangs and the like.

Be like racing at the speedway

Walks.


We call them "Cage Cars" in Vic, but regardless, if you already have them, your Union is dreaming.

Maybe the WA Police Union heirachy should be the immediate subject of drug testing.

I say this because they have clearly lost the plot on this issue. In order to be considered a credible representitive body, they need to have reasonable objectives in mind, not pie in the sky pipedreams. The moment demands become bizarre, all public support goes out the window.

Nobody in their right mind will agree that their claims are achievable.

The union expectations of a Police car seems to be a bulletproof tank on wheels, that performs like a normal road car and stops like a road car.

So in order to comply with the Union demands, WA Police needs to provide a purpose built Falcon/Commodore type sedan with about a ton and a half of added "member protection stuff" totally protecting occupants from all risk and danger!

Also, to make this 3 ton Falcon/Commodore beast stop and perform like a road car, it will require an engine producing in the vicinity of at least 300kw, have Supercar equivalent brakes, not to mention tyres purpose designed, engineered and manufactured, to cater for the microscopic market of WA Police!!

If it is even possible to have the tyres made, that will push the Station Sedan vehicle price up to fairly heady heights, somewhere in the vicinity of $60k plus i'd guess, not to mention creating the logistical problem for the department of making spare/replacement tyres freely available throughout WA as they wear out or are punctured and ruined at a cost of well over $2000 each.

And that's just for the Stn Sedans. What about all the other vehicle configurations? How on earth do you engineer a Landcruiser Troopy or Caged Ute to satisfy the Union demands?

Based on the Union theory, to provide the same level of member protection in all vehicles, WA Police needs to provide a Troopy/Caged Ute with, Dual & Side Airbags, so that sedan drivers aren't provided with a safer workplace than those driving a commercial based vehicle, plus all the ancillary safety equipment the sedans have to increase the safety of members, plus have Toyota insert an engine developing 250kw plus, as well as go through the same tyre issues as with the sedans.

As for the fuel bill.......... The moronic system of station budgets in WA that are costed ridiculously low, has already turned the WA Police Force into a reactionary body, rather than a proactive one, so I have to ask, where is all the money to placate the Union going to come from?

Based on the current system, if the Union demands are somehow actually capable of being met, you will have shiny new, flash, ultra safe cars sitting at the station, but there will be no money left in the station budget, to purchase fuel so you that you can drive the vehicles out the driveway!

Credibility and commonsense seems to be in very short supply on this issue! But maybe it's just a strategy, for addressing an alterior motive.
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Postby Hwy612 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:40 am

Must admit I ahve not heard them called "cage cars" in Vic, only referred to as a pod car. Must be a metro thing imported from NSW :shock:
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Postby rgg066 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:40 am

Hwy612 wrote:Must admit I ahve not heard them called "cage cars" in Vic, only referred to as a pod car. Must be a metro thing imported from NSW :shock:


I hadn't heard them referred to as Pod Cars till this thread arose. I recall going in my first one when they were being trialled over at Knox a long time ago now and they were called cage cars from day 1. Even the Silver SS SMART Cars were often referred to as Cage Cars.

Maybe you bumkins way out west like just to use your own terminology! :lol:
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Postby Ryno » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:22 am

Well it was BLOODY confusing when I first moved over here and I was asking for a "pot" of Vic and them saying a "middy" of Vic?

Me: "No, a pot"
Bar chick: "yeah, a middy"

Me: "what the hell are you talking about?"
Bar chick: "here! holding a "middy"" :oops:

Apparently there is some team also called "West Coast Eagles" - barely heard much about them myself :roll:

Now.. back to the topic :D
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Postby HDTSLE » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:48 pm

Yep, everything I was gonna say Walks covered!! :lol: :lol:

Cheers mate! Saved me typing all that!!!! :D :lol:

I was told that it was only P1 drivers allowed to use them, but I'll tell anyone else who tells me that to bugger off! :lol:

I just wish our whole fleet were at least SV6's, or SV8's for that matter, but I'm obviously living in a dreamworld!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Ryno » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:28 pm

When if at all was the last V8 vehicle used by WAPol?
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Postby rgg066 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:13 pm

West Coast.........Eagles??? Are you sure? :?:

I've heard of a West Coast Cooler, but that's a girly drink!! :lol: :lol:
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Postby Walks » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:25 pm

Last V8 used by WAP was VT Series 2. V6 ever since.

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Postby rgg066 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:35 pm

Ryno wrote:When if at all was the last V8 vehicle used by WAPol?



I'm fairly sure the VT was the last WA V8.

Following a Police fatal where a member died in 2000, WA decided to remove all V8 cars from service and introduce a pursuit speed limit of 140 km/h.
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Postby Richmeister » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:09 pm

Got some photos today of TE203 (1BUC-737), the silver VZ Exec with SMART markings. It now has a slimline LED lightbar instead of the Vector bar it had previosly, interestingly it has a red panel above the blue LEDs and a blue panel above the red ones. I'll post the photos soon.
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Postby Richmeister » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:56 pm

Here it is:
http://www.auspolcars.info/index.php?st ... c-te203_01
http://www.auspolcars.info/index.php?st ... c-te203_02

Note the flip-up message board on the top of the lightbar.
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Postby Walks » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:06 pm

Not having seen this car yet, I wonder what the side view is like????? Pretty thin light bar.

I love having cars with new stuff on them. I had the first WA car at traffic which had the Vector lights on it.

Call sign Tango 13. Caught fire with 65km on the clock as it fried the alternator :)

But it live to fight on.

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Postby Richmeister » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:19 pm

13 - unlucky number hey Walks :D
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Postby HDTSLE » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:21 pm

I never get to drive the new cars......:(

Haven't seen this one gettin around yet, will have to keep an eye out for it!
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Postby Hwy612 » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:03 pm

Iget to drive a new car or two about every 60,00kms. I used to get to do the swap over in Melbourne for each new car, but not as often any more.
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Postby scottwa2468 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:23 am

i heard that wa police vechles are leased,a few months ago i was at maddington train station in perth and there were brand new police vechles with country callsighns,that would be a great place to get some pics
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Postby HDTSLE » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:48 pm

Ah, I know the place, just down the road from my station, will have to pop in get a few photos next day shift!
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Postby rgg066 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:46 pm

Hwy612 wrote:Iget to drive a new car or two about every 60,000kms. I used to get to do the swap over in Melbourne for each new car, but not as often any more.


So what are you trying to say? You don't upset the Sgt. as often anymore? :lol:
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Postby Ludacris » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:18 am

Richmeister wrote:So the highest trained police drivers are stuck with 190 kW auto SV6s, but Joe Civilian with no driver training can go out and jump in a 305 kW six speed manual ClubSport?


Always remember this. No good having a big engine if ya don't have the balls to drive it............

We getting an SV6 soon.... woohoo
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